tv FOX News Sunday With Chris Wallace FOX News June 22, 2014 3:00pm-4:01pm PDT
have to get beat up. that's it for this edition of media buzz. we post our columns, and respond to your questions on video on our facebook page. i'm chris wallace. isis insurgents on the march in western iraq. we'll have the latest. and house republicans elect new leaders and try to present a united front heading into the midterm elections. >> we've got solid, conservative solutions that are going to solve the problems facing our country. >> i'll make one promise. i will work every single day to mach sure this congress has the courage to lead with the wisdom to listen. >> we'll sit down with kevin mccarthy to discuss immigration, spending, and the tea party in his first interview since being elected house majority leader. it's a fox news sunday exclusive.
then, fireworks on capitol hill as lawmakers grill the head of the irs over those lost lois lerner e-mails. >> what i didn't hear in that was an apology to this committee. >> i don't think an apology is owed. >> i don't believe you. this isn't credible. >> i have a long career. that's the first time anybody has said that they do not believe me. >> we'll talk with an attorney who represents conservative groups and a lawsuit against the irs. and a former top democratic house staffer. plus, president obama announces he'll send 300 military advisers to help stop the advance of islamic extremists. our sunday panel weighs in on the president's decision to send u.s. troops back into iraq. and our power player of the week. starbucks ceo howard schultz on his trademark brand's newest rollout. >> this is an investment in our people, in our company, and in
society. it is a win-win. >> all right now on "fox news sunday." and hello again from fox news in washington. islamic militants continue to seize towns in western iraq today, and now control the main border crossing into syria. all this as secretary of state kerry arrives in the middle east trying to build support for a new unity government in baghdad. box news correspondent shannon bream has the latest from the white house. >> chris, as the white house continues to mull over strategy on the growing conflict in iraq, isis is making steady gains, continuing to make gains in areas that are critical. we're talking about keyboarder towns, primarily with syria. capture makes the borders even more porous. there's also growing concern about the city of haditha.
damage to that dam could be devastating to the surrounding area, causing major flooding and potentially shutting down portions of the country's electrical grid. this morning, the iraqi government has released video it says shows military aircraft bombing suspected militant hideouts in mosul, which was taken by isis fighters about two weeks ago. fox news cannot independently verify the awe then tuthenticit video. still no more information on the officials going into iraq. as you mentioned, secretary of state john kerry has touched down in the region today. he's expected to make several stops there with an emphasis on encouraging iraqi prime minister nuri al maliki. chris? >> more on this with a panel a little later.
shannon, thank you. after eric cantor's stunning primary loss, house republicans voted this week to replace him as majority leader. joining us now for his first interview since winning the number two job in the house, california congressman kevin mccarthy. congratulations. >> thank you. thanks for having me. >> let's start with iraq, where as we reported, isis is still on the move. was president obama right to send these military advisers to help the iraqi army, or should he move even further and authorize military strikes against isis now? >> i think the first thing he needs to do -- because to me, this is not just about iraq. it's about syria. this is about egypt. this is about the entire middle east. what is our strategy? why do you send troops? what are they going to do? if you don't have an overall strategy, how do we push back the momentum of the terrorism growing throughout the entire region? to me, the key part was lay out a strategy, then we could see the outcome of what we need to
do to make it happen. >> but we cannot allow isis -- >> i don't have a problem spending the 300, but i think it's more important what's the strategy you're going to have going forward? what military options do you have? i'd leave everything on the table right now. >> including boots on the ground? >> i'd put everything on the table, but most people when you talk to them don't think boots on the ground would work right now, that you don't need it. but if you don't have a strategy, what would the boots on the ground even do? that's the question you have to have. >> does it make sense of authorized military strikes, air strikes now simply to degrade, slow down isis, which is moving across iraq? >> if you have a strategy that says the ire striair strikes ha, then yes. but if you don't have a strategy, how do you pick what you're going to do next? the key part is, lay out what we want to do for the entire region to stop the momentum of this growth. you cannot allow them to grow. they're growing each and every
day. lack of inaction has allowed them to grow. we need to move that momentum backwards. air strikes could be a key part of it. >> house republicans elected you majority leader this week by a wide margin, but some tea party advocates, activists are concerned. a long-time conservative activist said you and the new house w.h.i.p. are, quote, business as usual, go along to get along washington insiders, the gap between the leadership of the republican party and the base of the party continues to widen. how do you plead? >> i think he probably doesn't know my background. i'm a conservative. i believe in the idea of freedom and liberty. more importantly, look at my voting background. i voted against bailing out wall street. i voted against -- never voted for a tax increase. i come from the grassroots. my family was not republicans. i'm the youngest. i came to this party based upon
choice. i believe the constitution matters, that it's not just a few pieces of paper. >> and we're going to get to your family background because a lot of people don't know you, a little bit later. but i want to talk about that record. your voting record. you're generally seen as less conservative than the man you're replacing, eric cantor. let me put a couple numbers up on the screen. the club for growth ranked cantor with a 68% conservative voting record. you at 53%. national journal says cantor was the 80th most conservative house member. you were 170. they base this on votes on various issues. your response? >> and american conservative union gives me a lifetime rating of 90. faith and freedom gives me 100%. check my voting record. check what i believe and look what i've done. when they wanted to bailout wall street, i said no twice. when they wanted to raise taxes, i've always said no. i have a philosophical belief that this constitution matters.
>> well, let's talk going forward. you're going to face issues between now and november. let's do this kind of a lightning round. quick questions, quick answers. >> all right. >> immigration, you are on the record supporting a path to legalization for the millions of illegal immigrants who are now in this country. will you try to pass comprehensive immigration reform before the election that includes, not a path to citizenship, but a path to legalization. >> i'm on record saying nothing about immigration until we secure the borders. the borders are not secure. look at the humanitarian crisis happening right now along the border states. these are children coming from three major countries in central america. they're going across. kids are dying. who knows what's happening when it comes to human trafficking and others. it's because our borders are not secure. until you secure the borders, you cannot have the conversation about anything else. >> but you are on the record as of, i know last january, a bunch of quotes where you did say you thought that there should be
legal status -- >> i don't believe there should be citizenship. i believe in the rule of law. i believe there's an opportunity. but if you don't secure the borders, there's nothing. until we secure the borders, because the borders are not secure, we're not enforcing the laws, and i think that's a reasonable position. until that's secure, you can't have immigration. >> so you're saying border security and a path to legalization. >> that must come first. >> okay. the highway trust fund runs out of money this summer. do you support raising the gas tax to keep the trust fund going? >> no. that's a democrat idea. continue to raise taxes on the families going forward. why don't we find a broader solution? the whole highway bill is another example why i ran. this was a good intended to go through. we can build the golden gate bridge in two years, but it
takes two decades to build an on-ramp. needs to be totally reformed. we need to open up federal lands for exploration. federal government puts that into resources to help build the bridges and roads we need. >> authority for the export/import bank, which helps encourage the selling of u.s. products overseas, expires in september. do you agree with conservatives who say that the exporting/import bank is more of a crony capitalism and should be put out of business and allowed to expire? >> one of the biggest problems with government is they take hard-earned money so others do things the private sector can do. last authorization with the bank directed the president of treasury secretary to wind down the xm bank, negotiate with the other countries to wind them down so we have a level playing field. we've got hearings going on next week in financial service, which
i sit on. i think xm bank is one thing government does not have to be involved in. the private sector can do it. >> so straightforward question. you would allow the xm bank to expire in september? >> yes, because it's something that the private sector can be able to do. >> what is your attitude about doing business with barack obama for the rest of his presidency? >> i believe you can work with anybody. the challenge has been harry reid. let me give you an example. there's more than 240 bills that have passed the house that haven't been brought up inside the senate. if you want to know the problem, the frustration with washington, the senate. the senate has not moved anything. they never send something to the president's desk. so how do you even negotiate with the president if he doesn't have the bill on his desk? the senate doesn't even allow amendments. we're going through the appropriation process right now in an open process. sheila jackson lee has offered 29 amendments just on appropriation bills. that's about 20 more than the
entire caucus of the republicans inside the senate has been able to offer for the whole last year. so what is the holdup here? harry reid and the senate. if that fundamentally changes in november, i think it'll be a new day for america and a new direction. >> finally, let's talk about kevin mccarthy. frankly, a lot of people, this is really the first chance they're getting to see you and hear you. you grew up in bakersfield, california. your dad was a firefighter, as you point out. your folks were democrats. how did you become a republican? >> philosophical belief. i was the youngest. i came in the '80s. i watched ronald reagan and jimmy carter say, you know, put on a sweater and the best days behind us and reagan say no pastels, go to the shiny city on the hill. i knew what i wanted to believe. i believe in greater liberty and freedom. that's why i took a risk at 19 to create my own company. >> i want to talk about that. and i think a lot of people don't know this. you won the california state lottery or won a prize in the
california state lottery just out of high school, $5,000. parlayed it through the stock market and at age 19, you opened your own delicatessen. >> i believe in risk. if i failed, i didn't expect government to bail me out. but if i succeeded, i didn't expect government to take all my money. i took this money, i created my own company. my father and i even built the counter in my dad's garage. we created a deli. i soon learned, if you're a small business owner, you're the first one to work, last one to leave, last one to be paid. we learn about what regulation does to your business and the challenges. you wonder where common sense is. but the end of two years, i was successful enough to have enough money to pay my way through college. so i sold my business because i wanted to finish college. my local paper said be a summer intern in washington, d.c. with my local congressman. i didn't know the guy, but i thought he'd be lucky to have me, so i applied and he turned me down. the end of the story, i'm now elected to the seat i couldn't get an internship for. only in this country do you get
that type of opportunity. >> let's talk about life here in washington. you sleep on a sofa in your office, your congressional office, when you're in washington. you're now the house majority leader. don't you think you need better digs? >> no. you know why i do it? because i go back and i read for the next day. i don't want to ever become washington. i go home every weekend. i don't want it to be comfortable. i don't want to have to worry about my roof in washington, the school district in washington. i want to worry about what jim ball main, who owns smith bakeries on union avenue, worries about. he wakes up every morning to still bake the best brownies you ever had. how does it affect him? why should i ever be comfortable here? i believe it makes me a better member, makes sure i i continue to listen, makes sure i can do a better job. >> finally, you helped actor kevin spacey develop his role as
frank underwood in "house of cards." i have to ask you, how much of you is in that character? >> pretty much none of it. i was never going to help him. he kept asking me. i wouldn't help him until i found out he played a democrat, so i told him to come on in. the only thing i told him is i tell the members vote your conscience, vote your district, just don't surprise me. people come here, they should represent their district. they should represent their philosophie philosophies. that should be the power of the idea in washington. >> i have to ask you, though, in the frank underwood role, did you ever kill a political opponent? >> no, but i jokingly say, if i ever did, it would be easier to win. seven members text me to ask me if they would be the one i'd kill. look, we're all conservatives. the only thing we ever battle over are tactics, not ideology. some want to get there faster than others. there's so much more that divides us the philosophy
of government. >> congressman mccarthy, thank you. thanks for coming in today. we look forward to more conversations. don't be a stranger, sir. >> glad to be here. >> congratulations again. >> thank you so much. the president sends u.s. military advisers to iraq but hold off on air strikes. our sunday group discusses the wisdom of going back into iraq. that's next. plus, what would you like to ask the panel? the panel? go to facebook or okay, listen up! i'm re-workin' the menu. mayo? corn dogs? you are so outta here! aah! [ female announcer ] the complete balanced nutrition of great-tasting ensure. 24 vitamins and minerals, antioxidants, and 9 grams of protein. [ bottle ] ensure®. nutrition in charge™.
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involvement in iraq, sending in hundreds of military advisers but holding off on air strikes for now. and it's time for our sunday group. george will, syndicated columnist. judy woodrough. and fox news political analyst juan williams. george, military advisers but no military action, trying to push out the prime minister of iraq. is obama doing too little, too much, or is he getting it about right? >> it's hard to know what he can do, and it's also hard to know what he is doing because the 300 or so military advisers are only a military consequence if they're going to do more than advise. that if, if they're on the ground in order to pick targets and do air control for attacks from the air that only the united states can do. the problem is, the president has said they will take no military action that helps one sect or another. since iraq is one sect or another, it's hard to see how
you can do that. with regard to maliki, it's clear the president would like to have regime change, to change the government of iraq, both its stur and current composition. problem is, maliki is supported by the security services, such as they are. and he's supported by iran. so it's very hard to see how he gets rid of him. finally, we seem to be somehow pleased or ought to be pleased that the army is back. >> he's an even more radical shiite cleric, more than maliki. >> correct. and he was a huge problem for the pacification of iraq. now it seems in some sense we need him to come back into the fray. >> oh, boy. we ask you, and it picks up on all the comments george just said. we ask you for questions for the panel. we got a lot of responses like this one on facebook from brad stutler. why should we care when the
soldiers and police that we trained obviously don't care enough to secure their own interests? judy, how do you answer brad and a lot of other people who are just worried about us getting sucked back into iraq? >> well, we know there are no good options right now in iraq. we know that what the president told us a few years ago, that iraq was a secure and a stable country, didn't turn out to be right. we know a few other things. we know that maliki is someone who is divisive. he's someone not willing to compromise. we also know if we're going to make strikes, on whose side are we doing it? where do we strike? who do we strike? what we've seen is isis, which was expelled from al qaeda because it is even more extreme than al qaeda. it's not like going against the german army if france 70 years ago. finally, chris, this president has said or has suggested that the united states doesn't want to be maliki's air force. so we've got to be -- this
country has got to be careful about what it does going in. >> i want to pick up on that. because while some hawks like john mccain this week were calling for immediate u.s. air strikes against isis, there was a very interesting reaction from general david petraeus, who is the architect of the u.s. troop surge in iraq that was so successful back in 2007. take a look. >> this cannot be the united states being the air force for shia militias or a shia-on-sunni arab fight. it has to be a fight of all of iraq against extremists. >> michael, does petraeus have a point that at this point, if you go in on the side of the iraqi government, you're going in on the side of the shiites against the other factions and that you shouldn't do this until you have some kind of a unity or more unified government in baghdad?
>> no, absolutely , he does. we can't do anything that makes us look like we're picking sides in a civil war. we don't have any good options. the reason we don't have any options is that the president a month ago was running around town talking about how his foreign policy was don't do stupid stuff. but that actually means a foreign policy of weakness and a foreign policy of american disengagement from the world. the stupidest thing we can be doing right now is having america disengage from the world. six years ago he makes the decision to pull out of iraq, leave no residual forces, the forces that could have been there identifying the intelligence and targeting what would have been prevented this from happening. six months ago what the intel was coming in that there was going to be a challenge to the government, we didn't send the 300 troops in there because that would have been going back on the president's statement that iraq was stable and self-reliant. now we're forced into a situation where we have no good options. it's because of the president's policy of weakness that is showing itself with russia, showing itself in the middle east, and it doesn't work. >> i can see you, juan, chomping
at the bit. but before you do, there does seem to be a growing feeling in support of michael's point of view. a new poll out this week showed that support, public support for the president's handling of foreign policy has hit a new low of just 37%. here's what house speaker john boehner had to say this week about the president's larger foreign policy. >> it's not just iraq. it's libya. it's egypt. it's syria. and the spread of terrorism has increased exponentially under this president's leadership. >> and it isn't just john boehner, as we saw from the poll. there's a growing feeling among americans that the president's war on terror isn't working. >> well, i think that's a sign of frustration. we've had an endless stream of, you know, chaos in the world. i think it was president link whon said something to the effect of, i don't control events, events control me. that applies directly to this situation. but what you're seeing is that
the polls indicate there's no good alternatives. if you ask americans, should we send americans into syria? no. should we send them into iraq? no. should we antagonize putin in russia? no. should we stay in afghanistan? no. so in a sense, the president's reflecting american attitudes, but he's having to deal with, you know, a band of troublesome players. it's maliki's failure in iraq. let's not confuse that. michael said, well -- you know, he's not engaged in the world. remember, it was president bush who decided we were going to pull out of iraq. that was president bush's decision. so you have a situation where this president is trying to manage things. i think the poll, chris, reflects frustration, not a lack of faith. when you start to hear people like boehner, like dick cheney this week in "the wall street journal," you know, critical of this president, i think people are then reminded, gee, i don't
mind. i think the president's not doing such a great job with this, but, boy, i'm glad he's not the republicans, whose rating is even lower than the president. >> in the third presidential debate, president obama said he was the one who made the decision not to leave a residual force in iraq. >> a residual force. >> that would have given us option. when america is strong around the world, we have options. when america is weak and withdraws from the world, we don't have options. >> wait, wait. let me ask you a question, michael. i've heard this all, no good options. what would you do in iraq now? forget the past. >> i'd probably do something similar to what president obama is doing. six months ago, i would have sent people in who could help gather intel. we would have stamped this out in 24 hours. i would have left a residual force. when you pull back from the world, you're left with a situation where you don't have options. the problem was in the past. the problem isn't going forward. >> george? >> iraq has been a civil war
waiting to happen for many decades. i don't think we can blame this president. like all presidents, he's suffering from what greg weiner, a smart political scientist, calls narcissistic policy disorder. it's the belief that everything in the world happens because of us or is somehow about us and we can do something about it. in fact, we can't. >> on that happy note, panel, we have to take a break. we'll see you a little later. up next, outrage on capitol hill after the irs commissioner refuses to apologize for the loss of lois lerner's e-mails. we'll talk with a lawyer who's suing the irs on behalf of conservative groups that were targeted. h. heartburn. did someone say burn? try alka seltzer reliefchews. they work just as fast and are proven to taste better than tums smoothies assorted fruit. mmm. amazing. yeah, i get that a lot. alka seltzer heartburn reliefchews. enjoy the relief.
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no matter how fast your business needs to adapt, if hp big data solutions can keep wireless customers smiling, imagine what they can do for yours. make it matter. the scandal over the irs targeting of conservative groups got new life this week. we learned a computer hard drive belonging to lois lerner, the former irs official at the
center of the controversy, reportedly crashed back in 2011, destroying two years of e-mails crucial to the investigation. that led to irs commissioner in facing some very angry congressmen this week. joining us now, the attorney representing some of the conservative groups suing the irs, cleta mitchell, and a former top democratic house staffer, julian epstein. let's start with the case of the missing e-mails. here is the very testy exchange this week between the chairman of the house ways and means committee and the irs commissioner. take a look. >> what i didn't hear in that was an apology to this committee. >> i don't think an apology is owed. there's not a single e-mail been lost since the start of this investigation. >> cleta, the irs says lois lerner was asked to recover
e-mail as soon as it crashed in 2011. they say they had been able, by going to other people that the e-mails were sent to, to recover 67,000 of the e-mails she was involved in. so i guess the question is, what's your beef? >> well, there are several beevebee beefs. let's start with the fact that the number of e-mails doesn't matter. if there were 200,000 or 2 million, what matters is that the committee on house oversight asked on june 9th of 2013 for a -- sent a letter asking for all of the e-mails of lois lerner specifically. in august, when they hadn't gotten a response, they issued a subpoena. they reissued that subpoena to the new commissioner late last year. if you go back and look at the testimony, the hearing where he testified in march, the committee repeatedly -- the members ask him about lois lerner's e-mails. he testified friday that he knew as early as february about this
computer glitch. what i think is appalling is they have not answered the question. they didn't tell us a year ago. i say that i don't believe -- i'm with paul ryan. i don't believe him. they should have told -- they should have come forward about this a year ago. there should have been a lot more investigation than what we've heard. >> i want to pick up on this, julian. here is why a lot of people are so suspicious. take a look at this timeline that we put together. june 3rd, 2011. chairman camp, house ways and means, asks the irs about the targeting of conservative groups seeking tax exempt status. june 13th, just ten days later, lerner reports that her hard drive has crashed. february 2013, irs realizes that the e-mails are missing. at least that's what they say. june 13th, 2014, the irs finally tells congress. julian, i guess, two questions. how do you explain this four-month delay between when
the irs says they knew the e-mails were missing and when they finally told congress? and how do you explain this apparent coincidence that it is ten days after congress starts asking about the e-mails that lois lerner says, oh, the hard drive has crashed. >> so let me say, i think any time you have targeting of any group by the irs, it's an appropriate that an apology is issued in that instance. when you have e-mails missing in an investigation, it's a problem. the timing was coincidental. i think perhaps unfortunate. >> how do you know? >> well, the outline that you just suggested. but there is no that suggests, chris, that there was any bad faith involved in the computer crash. when the computer crashed, lois -- >> but -- >> let me finish my point f i may. when the computer crashed, lois lerner immediately went to the
i.t. professionals at the irs. they all confirmed that. they all confirmed they went to extraordinary lengths to try to recover that information. >> but we don't know that. we have a few e-mails that were selectively produced that show that she was -- let me tell you what. if that had been my hard drive and that happened, i would have been a little more outraged than she appeared to be. here are some other questions. i've had irs employees who have e-mailed me this week who said all of their servers -- it's not one little computer in washington. there are servers in three different places in the united states. the irs has a contract with a professional e-mail archiving company. i want to know why the fbi has not stepped forward and said what they have done to try to bring in their very sophisticated capabilities to understand what happened. i don't think that we can say that there was no -- >> let me finish a point. during the bush administration, a contributor on this network came on to concede that 5 million e-mails may have been
lost by the white house during the course of the u.s. attorney investigation. during the course of the torture memo investigation, e-mails were lost. this is not the first time this has happened. i think the question is, and the question for cleta, is there any demonstration of any bad faith here? >> let's get a quick answer. i want to move on to something else. >> i don't think we know the answer to that. i think there is bad faith in that this should have been known a year ago. it was known to the irs a year ago. and it should have been disclosed a year ago. >> okay. let me move on to another subject. frankly, the bottom line sun subject. one of the groups you represent suing the irs is called true devoe, which sought tax exempt at it us it in 2010. the irs finally favored and granted their application in 2013. three years -- >> on the day they were to answer. >> i understand your outrage. a lot of people understand the outrage that it takes three years for that.
but do you have any hard evidence that either the white house or the obama campaign ordered the targeting of any conservative group? >> absolutely. all you have to do is look at the report that the house oversight committee posted on its website. they have a new website that has all this information. and if you look at the timeline -- and now i understand why the democrats have been trying to shut down -- >> but the to the point, do you have any hard evidence? >> democratic senators and house members were beating on the irs, demanding that the irs do something to stop these conservative and tea party groups. >> who inside the treasury did this? >> chris is asking you a specific question, and you are not answering the question. >> let me ask you this. >> no, why don't you answer the question? >> the pertinent time period that we would know whether there was such direct evidence has been conveniently lost. >> julian, let me do the interview. i want to ask you about president obama, who was
outraged initially as cleta mitchell was about the whole irs scandal. >> appropriately so. >> but watch how his attitude changed over the next few months. take a look. >> i've reviewed the treasury department watchdog's report, and the misconduct that it covered is inexcusablinexcusabl. but with this endless parade of posturing and phoney scandals, washington's taken its eye off the ball. there were some bone headed decisions. >> but no mass corruption? >> not even mass corruption. not even a smidgen of corruption. >> julian, how does inexcusable misconduct become a phoney scandal and then not a smidgen of corruption? >> if you simply look at the i.t., the inspector general report, i think the inspector general report saying essentially the same thing. >> the inspector general never did an investigation. he did an audit. when he responded initially to the inexcusable misconduct, it
was after the inspector general's report. >> that's correct. i think the inspector general -- >> and there's never been for all of the referral to the justice department, there's never been a criminal investigation into this. so how can the president say that there's not a smidgen of corruption? what's the basis for that? >> because i think the inspector general report and the committee investigation has essentially left every stone unturned -- no stone unturned. let me try to delineate basic facts here. the inspector general reported all of the evidence shows that this was initiated by a low-level republican staffer in a cincinnati office. >> that's not true. >> let me finish the point, if i may, without interruption. on two occasions, two senior irs officials slapped down this effort to target. there's no evidence whatsoever that -- >> we have limited time here. you made a point. i think it's a fair point. how do you respond? >> it's not true. if you look at the interviews that have been posted, the
information, this all was a result of a response by the irs and high-ranking officials in the irs. >> who? >> lois lerner among others. the fact of the matter is they were concerned about the citizens united decision and the political pressure being brought to bear on all these service employees and they were trying to, quote, do something. we just learned because the investigation has been allowed to continue that lois lerner sent the data, a database of 12,000 citizens organizations to the fbi for possible criminal investigation. >> i got 30 seconds left. one last question for cleta. i'm sorry. where does the scandal go from here? how do you think the missing e-mails should be handled, and how do we get to the bottom of if there was anyone above and beyond lois lerner who is responsible for targeting these groups? >> we have to be able to look at e-mails outside of the irs. that's one thing the irs commissioner has not been forthcoming about. we're going to be meeting and conferring with lawyers for the
justice department for the irs and lois lerner this week. i doubt we'll get very far. we'll ask the court to order an independent forensic investigation. >> ten seconds, final word. >> there is no evidence that the white house or senior treasury officials were involved in this. it was started by a republican staffer inside a cincinnati office. the senior officials at irs twice slapped this process down. democrats were investigated as well. critics have never shown that there is anything approaching a serious scandal here involving political officials, even if the targeting was admittedly inappropriate. >> okay. cleta, julian, thank you both. to be continued. we, of course, will stay on top of this. what do you think about the irs targeting scandal and the new report about lois lerner's hard drive crashing? join the conversation on facebook with other viewers. up next, our sunday group returns to try to solve the case of the missing e-mails.
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this is a pattern of abuse a pattern of behavior that's not giving us any confidence that this agency is being impartial. i don't -- i don't believe you. this is incredible. >> i have a long career. that's the first time anybody has said they do not believe me. >> i don't believe you. >> well, usually mild mannered congressman paul ryan ripping into the irs chief this week over claims the agency lost thousands of e-mails connected with the irs targeting scandal. we're back now with the panel to continue the conversation. the irs commissioner says back in 2011 when lois lerner's hard
drive crashed, that she immediately called the i.t. people, asked them to retrieve any of the files that they could. george, how credible? >> incredible. and here's -- let me tell you why we need a special prosecutor in this. one of my pet peeves with current english usage is the treatment of disinterested and uninterested as synonyms. we wish the justice department were interested in this. instead, it's uninterested in this investigation. we can no more expect mr. holder to investigate this white house than we expected john mitchell to investigate the nixon white house. we know six things, chris. we know, first, the targeting occurred. therefore, second, we know this is worse than article two of the nixon impeachment count, which said nixon endeavored to use the irs. the irs back then resisted. third, we know that this became public in an act of deceit when
lois lerner tried to get this out on her own terms. fourth, we know she's taken the fifth amendment because she has the right to do this when there's a reasonable suspicion there might be criminal activity involved. fifth, we know from the timeline you put up today that there's been 13 months of stone walling on this. six, now we know that not only her hard drive, but six other people intimately involved in this, suddenly crashed in an amazing, miraculous coincidence. religions have been founded on less. ten days after the investigate started. that's why we need a special prosecutor. >> judy, the irs scandal, i think it's fair to say, seemed to be fading for lack of new information. does the case of the missing e-mails give it new life? >> well, what i can say, chris, is i haven't reported this story. i don't know what happened inside the irs. but what i can say is i've known john for 30 years. he is a man of total integrity, as i think any republican or
democrat who knows him well will say. he had a very successful, long career in the private sector. he ran y2k for the government successfully. even worked for the district of columbia government. the charges here don't fit the man. so, you know, this is a story we'll continue to talk about, but this is -- you know, we live in a city where investigations go on, e-mail searches go on, but the man at the center of this, i can tell you from personal experience s not what it appears. >> but the only point i'd make back at that is he was not there when any of these things happened. he wasn't there when the targeting allegedly happened. he wasn't there when the hard drive crashed. he's been there only for the last six months. so you can argue about whether he was trying to hide it from congress when he found out in february, but you can't talk about what was going on in 2010 or '12. >> he has provided evidence, as i understand it, in the last few days that indicates that what lois lerner did back in 2011
when the hard drive crash was she tried to get her e-mails recovered. it didn't happen. this was well before this story became public. so that's what he's done. he's also talked about what the treasury department independent r general has done and s, that, yes, there was riate inappropriate action onac the pf of irs employees, but no, it doesn't appear to be politicall. motivated. so he's cooperating.john but the debate will go on about what happened and whether there >> michael, i want to ask you a question that i asked earlier. there are a lot of suspicions and rightly so, a lot of , so questions but so far and correct me if i'm wrong, is there any me hard evidence that either the white house or the obama targeting? >> i don't know what's worse. if we live in a country now where a bunch of unelected bureaucrats inside the irs can
decide on their own to target -- >> the president was -- >> either way, we're in a prette bad situation. we'r're supposed to have checks and balances in the branches ofo our government. we no longer live in that system. we have an out of control executivee branch because the congress gave up his prerogative. an executive branch thatch chand obamacare. they've made unconstitutional appointments to the nlrb. what weave seen were the irs, so on and so on. i agree with george, we should have a special prosecutor. it's uncon shonnable that kathleen sebelius's replacement went through. it's time for congress to step p back up and reassert its proper place. >> i want to pick up on one of your comments. i understand the politics t involved here. but on the merits, is there anys reason that they shouldn't appoint a special prosecutor atl this point?poin
>> yeah. there's lots of merits. beginning with the fact that the congress, a very partisan, driven investigation took place, went after this, e-mails provided, everything provided, memos and nothing found. ins inspector general went after an, said there was misbehavior in terms of the targeting -- in investigation. >> no. but he went afte hr it, chris. >> he did not go into the question of what the white >> house -- >> yes, he did.house he said there was no political motivation. >> he wasin talking about the i >> he did not seek the e-mails of what was going on in the on white house. >> what we know and this is something judy said a moment udy ago. don't pass over it so quickly. c ab it, occurred before the congresw co >> that's not true. true >> it is.. >> i just did a timeline on june 3rd of 2011, dave camp sent a letter, the chairman of the set house ways and means to the irs asking about the targeting and it was ten days after the
camp -- wait a minute.minute it was -- i know facts are inconvenient things. it was ten days after camp's s n letter that the hard drive crashed. >> he sends a letter. i'm saying the minute that congress said we havesaid quest about irs targeting, this had happened. t a letter. everybody sends letters.ave when you say we have an a investigation. that's a different matter. that's what would have set off alarms. that sets off alarms in my mind as a reporter. >> we have 15 second. >> this iser. crazy. what do you mean your e-mails mu disappear? >> the hard evidence might or might not be on the hard driveso which conveniently have disappeared. i do not think it is beyond theh capacity of the fbi's forensic people to verify that. >> thank you, panel.l, see you next sunday. this clearly is going to s g continue.o up next, our power player of the week. how one company isth helping it employees brew up a higher education.ede-workin the menu. mayo? corn dogs? you are so outta here! aah! [ female announcer ] the complete balanced nutrition of great-tasting ensure.
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it's one of america's great companies. 21,000 stores in 67 countries all selling its special brand. over the years, it has also been celebrated for its corporate culture. here's our power player of the week. >> starbucks coffee company will be the first company in the united states to offer a college education for free. >> howard schultz is chairman and ceo of starbucks. this week he announced a major
new program for its workers. >> this is a monumental, historic moment in time for our company. >> any employee starbucks calls them partners who works at least 20 hours a week will be able to take courses at arizona state university's online program. >> this world class is being delivered to you through asu online. >> starbucks will pay full tuition for junior and senior years, partial assistance for freshmen and sophomores. >> you can take any course you want? >> yes. >> you can leave starbucks after you graduate. >> we don't want you to leave, but if you take the degree with you, you do not owe us any money. >> the announcement is important to me because today is where my life changes. >> it amazes me that i'll be able to accomplish something that i've always seen myself accomplishing, but i never new when. >> what is it going to cost you? >> this could cost tens of millions of dollars per year depending how many people
enroll. so the question is, how is wall street going to look at this? we're going to significantly lower attrition and attract people. this is not an expense the way i look at it. this is an investment in our people, in our company and in society. it is a win-win. >> if that sounds like slick p.r., schultz has been putting his money where his mouth is for years. he's offered health insurance to full and part-time workers since 1989. it has a generous stock option plan. it's committed to hiring 10,000 returning veterans. and it's donating $30 million for research and treatment of wounded warriors. >> do any of your colleagues at other big companies ever say to you, howard, we're not running charities here? >> i certainly have gotten a couple of messages and calls saying, you're going to make it a lot harder for us. >> howard schultz grew up poor in brooklyn. but he says the country then offered opportunities for kids like him. now he says the american dream
is broken. with too many people left behind. >> i'm scarred with what it meant to grow up on the other side of the tracks. i feel the vulnerability and the shame of what that meant as a poor kid and i see these kids and families and my heart goes out to them. >> schultz says washington has a role to play. but with government gridlocked, he thinks companies like his have to step up. and that good works are good business. >> we're playing the long game. we do not want to get into a short term mentality and play that game with wall street. the currency of building a consumer brand today is trust and that trust has to be based on more things than just making a profit. >> wall street apparently reacted well to schultz's new college plan. starbucks stock finished up more than 2.5% for the week. but the company also announced it's raising the price of the larger cups of coffee anywhere from 5 to .20 cents more. have a great week.
we'll see you next fox news sunday. >> announcer: fox news sunday is a presentation of fox news. i'm harris faulkner. potentially game changing developments in iraq at this hour. the white house has indicated it would be open to talks with iran to stop the al qaeda spinoff group isis. well now, we're learning iran's religious leader reportedly is condemning u.s. involvement saying the iraq government can handle its own problems. and they are having some critical problems right now as isis, that terror group has taken over key cities again this weekend. and arguably, one of the most important gains, iraq's only border crossing into jordan. that puts a blood thirsty group right at the doorstep of one of our strongest allies in that part of the world. here's a look at all the